S1E23 - Shadow the Hedgehog

Welcome back to another episode of Discreet Air, the podcast where every week we dive into the fascinating and extensive library of the greatest selling video game console of all time, the PlayStation Two. I'm Derek Kicker.

I'm Ian Golding.

And this week we are shooting cops.

Really?

We are shooting cops shadow. I was going to say shooting cops with Sonic the Hedgehog. No, that's not it. It's shooting cops with Shadow the hedgehog.

Yeah.

Shadow the emo edgy Hedgehog buddy is back from from Sonic Adventure Two. He's fucking back.

Sure.

And like always, he has an identity crisis, of course, and amnesia, which he seems to have a lot. I think this is the is it this isn't the first game. He has amnesia.

I don't believe so. No.

It's also not the last game. He has amnesia. No, I believe he has amnesia. And Sonic heroes.

It's a chronic condition for him. It's not yeah, he should really get.

An MRI or something. This hedgehog has a fucking brain tumor.

Yeah. He's got to have this looked at because this just can't continue on like this.

Yeah, this is he has he has the what's the world what's the world that this takes place in? Is it kind of supposed to be our world?

No. What is green?

Yeah, he has the Green Hills version of dementia.

Emerald City zone.

Yeah, he has Emerald City, CTE.

Too many repeated blows to the head.

Yeah. But this game came out on November 15, 2005. So this is somewhat of like a late, late life PS Two release because, what, the PlayStation Three came out in 2007.

I think it was seven. Yeah, 2007.

So we're getting PS two. This is when games should really start. Amazing. As developers have really mastered the system.

Right.

But this game was developed by Sega Studios USA, which used to be the US. Division of Sonic team.

All right. Sonic Team.

Sonic Team.

Good on them.

Sonic Team. Before this. Sonic Team USA Sega USA. Sega Studios USA. Prior to this, their big thing was that they had done Sonic Adventure Two.

Right.

Which I think most people consider the better of the Sonic Adventure games.

Yeah, I think that's pretty well.

This will be a reoccurring theme in this episode. I'm a sonic adventure apologist I think both those games are kind of awesome. On Dreamcast.

On Dreamcast.

I don't love the GameCube ports that much. I really like the Dreamcast versions. As goofy as they are, I think they're pretty good. And after Sonic Adventure Two, they did Sonic Heroes, which, interesting enough, was the first Sonic game developed for multiple platforms because it was on PS Two. It was on GameCube, it was on Xbox, and it was on Windows.

Okay.

This motherfucker was on everything.

Was this because the Dreamcast had ceased to be a thing?

I would assume so, yeah.

Okay.

So they started being by 2003. Absolutely.

Yeah. They're just like, we're just a software developer now.

Yeah. By 2003, I think people forgot what a dreamcast was.

Yeah.

And that was like a more even further departure from previous Sonic games.

Yeah. We are way getting outside the original Sonics. We're getting further and further away, and we're about to get really fucking far.

And then after Sonic Heroes, they would start work on Shadow the Hedgehog, which, I mean, I get it. In Sonic Adventure Two, I think everyone was kind of stoked about Shadow. He's Sonic, but, like, fucking pissed. Yeah, sure, he's Sonic, but fucking pissed.

Attitude problem. Yeah.

He's stone cold Sonic the Hedgehog, for fuck's sake.

Yeah, he is.

And Sega Studios USA would oversee the development of Sonic rivals as well. And Sonic rivals, too, but those were developed by Backbone Entertainment.

Oh, interesting.

Okay, so not a lot not a lot going on with the Sonic Team USA.

Nah, I don't know if their time has passed, but yeah.

So the development team, their main goal, I guess, with this game was to resolve the mysterious parts of Shadow story from Sonic Adventure Two.

Right.

And from what it seems like, the goal was to make a Sonic the Hedgehog game for adults.

Adultish. Not adults, but adult kids who want to be told that they're adults.

Yeah, kids who are like, I don't need a goddamn babysitter mom.

Yeah, exactly. Like shitty kids. Like, shit kids.

Yeah, asshole kids.

Pretty much. Yeah.

Kids who kids you'd find at OZFEST.

There you go. Nice.

This is an OZFEST game.

This is totally an OZFEST game.

This is absolutely an odd.

Yeah, this is a new metal game for sure.

And there's kind of a lot to this game.

Yeah.

Now, I didn't play this game when it came out.

I didn't hear of this game when it came out.

I had heard of it, but I mean, 2005, I was 16.

Okay.

My video game tastes were like I don't know, I guess I was more.

Into, like I was still into resin shit like that. Yeah. I mean, I do think there's a time in your life for Sonic, and especially for me, and probably for you. This feels a little late for that. You're like yeah, not really a Sonic person anymore.

I feel like my like I like Sonic now, but it's come back to it's a nostalgia thing.

Yes.

But I think Sonic's major appeal died for me with the Sonic Adventure games and the Dreamcast, honestly.

Yeah. I don't think you're rare. That's a rare position.

Yeah, I think that was kind of it for me. I loved Sonic on the Genesis, of course. I'm a firm believer. Sonic sonic the Hedgehog Two is one of the greatest video games of all time.

Hard to disagree with you on that. Yeah.

And I played some of the Sonic Spinball. Sure. Mean bean counting machine dr. Robotnik spin off. And when the dreamcast came out, I was stoked for Sonic Adventure. Of course, I was so fucking excited for Sonic Adventure and it was really fun and it looked kind of like it felt very new.

Yes.

It felt like, holy shit, this is the next generation. It felt like a massive jump from the PS One. And then Sonic Adventure Two was great. And then after that, Sonic was kind of like kid shit to me, of course, after that, so I never really got into the GameCube. Sonics or PS Two? Sonics.

No.

So this game where I was aware of its existence, just it was not for me.

I guess I feel like the issue with the thinking around Sonic is his design is for kids. No matter where you put him, no matter what you do him with a game, it's always going to feel like a kids game because he's a hedgehog with sneakers.

It's funny, though. Have you read console wars?

Yes, it's very funny.

That the original design for Sonic. He had like, fangs and a girlfriend with huge titties.

Yeah, of course.

He was in like a rock band and then just totally neutered, literally into, hey, God's goo, I'm Sonic the hitchhi.

I run fast and I have hyperspin. Yeah, I just think he is something for Kit, like fucking Peppa Pig or something. He's not too extreme, but he's a children's character. And my immediate thing is always like, this is for kids. It might be fun, but it's a kid's character. I mean, sorry, might be talking out of school here, but yeah.

And Shadow is clearly an attempt to, I guess, break into the sphere of influence for a bigger or an older generation of kids, of course. But, yeah, this game came out on the GameCube PS Two and Xbox. So they were full on just we are software. That's it. We're making games for all the consoles now. I would actually say I think this is the most revered of those games. I think this is the game that people say they like the most.

Okay.

Which I don't think is like a super high bar. But let's get into the so called story of this.

Shadow the Hedgehog. Why does that name haunt me? It's the only thing I can remember in that gruesome image. Maria, who am I and why can't I remember anything? And who is this Maria?

So in Sonic Adventure Two, shadow doesn't know who he is. I could be fucking so off here, but he's having trouble remembering who he is. Robotnik convinces him that he's not even like the original Shadow.

He thinks he's a robot.

Yeah, there's a robot or some shit. And then he is in, like, love with a human, I think. Robotnik's granddaughter, maria robotnik.

Right, correct.

Who he watches die.

Yeah, indeed, indeed, indeed.

And then at the end of Sonic Adventure Two, shadow is presumed dead, of course, but then he comes in Sonic heroes and has amnesia. And then at the beginning of this game, after, and this is just a PlayStation Two thing after an absolutely bonkers opening, cutscene 100%. Truly bonkers. Insane. He cocks an M P five like a shotgun. He's just blowing away cops. It's truly insane. Sonic looks like he's dying, and Shadow is just like, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, fuck care about you, you blue bitch, blue motherfuck. And he just is like, no, I got shit to do. So at the beginning of this, you start out, shadow is on and is at an overlook looking at town. I forget the name of the city, whatever city.

Sonic city, who fucking cares?

Sonic supersonic city. There you go.

Okay.

He's on an overlooking westopolis.

That's right.

He's overlooking Westopolis. And he is just contemplating life, fucking working it out, saying things like, who am I? Who is that woman with some true Resident Evil One level voice acting.

Yes.

And he's just thinking on the bigger questions in life. And then all of a sudden, a fucking portal opens up in the sky, and aliens drop out of it and start attacking people. And his first instinct is to be like, I'll give a fuck about humans, and start walking away. And then we get the first appearance of the primary antagonist, black Doom. Yeah, Black Doom, who appears in a hologram, and Shadow bitch, you said you was going to give me them Chaos Emeralds.

Oh, yeah, of course. Everything's about these goddamn chaos.

Yeah, so get to it. And then he disappears. Now, Shadow being the thinking man's hedgehog, he's like, hey, that dude knows my name. He must actually know me and know my past. Guess I better do that thing he said.

Of course.

And then you proceed to go and find the Chaos Emeralds, hang out with Sonic and Tails and Knuckles and Amy and Rogue and Charmy and SPO and all the cast of Animals. What are they?

Guardian something. What is it? They're like, a group.

I have no idea.

They have, like, a name.

Oh, Guardian gun guardian units of nations.

There it is. There it is. Yes.

Which is insane.

They're the UN of fucking hedgehog animals.

Yes, correct. But it's also run by people. That's an important factor. And we'll get into it when we get into the gameplay of this game. But this game has one of the most infuriating and opaque progression systems of any game I've ever seen in my life.

Hundred fucking percent.

I believe there is well over 300 different endings.

I didn't know that, but I knew.

That, which is fucking wild.

Fucking bonkers.

So while you're progressing through this game, you're working with Sonic and all the whole gang, and you're also fighting against Dr. Robotnik, who shows back up. You're fighting against the Gun commander who fucking hates Shadow. Sure. I'm starting to think that Avatar might have stolen that scarred faced guy's character from this guy in Shadow the Hedgehog.

Nice.

We got to find out if james Cameron's, a big shadow of the Hedgehog head. He's got to be, because he stole this forever. And eventually you get the Chaos Emeralds and then you have some hard choices to make. And in the canon ending, I guess the game ends with Shadow holding up a photograph of Maria and recalling Maria's last words to him, which were, goodbye forever, Shadow the Hedgehog.

It's the moment.

And he throws the photograph and walks away in slow motion, as you do.

As one does in that kind of life.

Now, I don't expect Dickensian Prose.

No.

From Sonic the Hedgehog. I think I really like the story of the original games. Just Dr. Robotnik trying to get Sonic and you're like, not today, motherfucker. I'm fast.

I'm going to jump on, bounce on top of you, a whole bunch.

Yeah. And I like, sonic 3d blast. I like Sonic CD where it's like, oh, fucking android. Sonic like, Gobble, that's not good at all.

No, not at all. Watch out for that.

This tries so very hard to be serious.

Yes.

It is so 2005. It is the most 2005 game to have ever been created. Yeah, because it's like and.

I guess.

In the interviews with the development team, they said they were inspired by movies like Underworld and Constantine and the Terminators.

Yeah, sure.

Which is like, okay, I think they're A, missing what makes people like Sonic and B, missing what makes people like those other movies.

Right, exactly.

They're getting the worst of both worlds with this game.

It's teenage fucking mellow drama, man. It's just fucking emo. Oh, God. You said it earlier. You don't know shit, mom. If this was one line of dialogue represented this game, it's that.

Yeah, you could call this get out of my room, mom. The game.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, but that say, this isn't a terrible, terrible, terrible game, so let's get into the gameplay of it.

You deliberately disobeyed me, Shadow.

No one tells me what to do. I have my own reasons for collecting the Chaos Emeralds.

You really don't understand the situation here, do you? Perhaps Professor Gerald has done more to your memory than I imagined.

The professor.

So anyone who's played the Sonic Adventure games will be not lost by how this game plays. Yeah, this game has a lot the Homing Strike comes back. Navigating the levels is very similar to Sonic Adventure.

It is par for the course.

A 3D action adventure game with some collectible stuff. The one thing, though, that this game is very linear, but then occasionally it's not very linear. There are levels in this game that are like, infuriatingly complicated, almost like Metroidvania esque, where you're doing a lot of backtracking.

Yeah.

You can easily miss shit because of the dingy, grunge aesthetic of the game. You can really miss shit that you need, which is a very funny contrast with some of the levels in this game that are like hyper colorful and look like a sonic adventure level, to be honest. Like, not emo in the slightest. And I would say that those are some of my favorite parts of the game are those levels. But the going through the city didn't really blow my skirt up. But the biggest change to the gameplay of this entry is that Shadow is packing heat.

Motherfucker.

Yeah, Shadow is packing heat. And he don't give a fuck. He will murder everyone.

Shadow is ready to defend the Second Amendment in this game.

Absolutely. Shadow the Hedgehog has a lifted truck with a Don't Tread on me sticker.

Absolutely.

And he is running through and, like, dorks with those stickers on their trucks. He probably loves the cops, but Wilmot hesitate to blow them away.

No. If they cross him in the slightest. Absolutely.

They're heroes to a point.

To a point. Until they do something I don't like.

And then it's fucking lights out. There's not like a ton of guns in this game. I mean, there's guns everywhere, but they're like all the same gun. I think there's like four or five different guns you can get. And you're never short on ammo, I say you get an uncomfortable amount of bullets.

Yeah. It's real generous, this game with the bullets.

Yeah. You could play through without using a gun. But then why would you play this game at all?

Exactly. You're here for the gun violence.

Absolutely. And what this game does, I will give this game a lot of credit for taking a massive swing, of course, at the progression system. I think it's overcomplicated and not quite pulled off well, but it really takes this swing at this morality path. So there's missions on every level. And when you do something dark, it gives you dark points. When you do something heroic, it gives you hero points, and then you get normal, like neutral points. So that would lead you to maybe believe that there is three endings, which would be great, right? A neutral ending, a dark ending, or a heroic ending. But apps are fucking lootly. Not because you can change every level. Every level you can do something different. And there's an insane amount of combinations to do. And when you do something dark, not only do you get dark points, but those dark points take away from heroic points.

Yes.

And vice versa. And all of that could lead you to any number of endings. And I would say it's one of the coolest parts of the game, though, is that it really does give you choices.

It does. Absolutely.

There really are choices. You can choose to not kill people. You can choose to kill people that you really shouldn't kill. And those choices do have an effect on how the game plays out and what ending you get and how it affects the storyline. And I honestly think this would be kind of incredible if the story were just better.

Yeah, of course.

If the story were just not so, like zero stakes, not intriguing, just kind of like just it's a little too simple. This game's trying to appeal to an older crowd while simultaneously having the storytelling of a children's game.

A very simple storytelling, but with adult, not themes, but with the endings and the kind of like you're telling the choices. There's other examples, but the one that immediately came to mind is a really weird one. It's the PlayStation One, a PS one game called Colony Wars where it's like a space fucking laser.

Space?

No, it's actually oh.

I'm thinking Unholy Wars.

No, this is Colony Wars. So it's like space combat. You're in a war and there are, I think, seven or eight different endings. And if, like, you win a mission, and one of the things online is that all the branching past, how to get this ending, how to get this ending, blah, blah, blah. It felt very similar. Not in succeeding or not, but the choices you made.

Yeah. And this game very much has, like a grid system that you can see and kind of chart your way towards that kind of ending. But there's just so many options. I would say too many options. Way too much for it to be even feel interactive enough, because it almost seems like there are certain endings you would only get or certain conclusions you would only get by accident. And now, I guess, again, this is kind of like one of the coolest parts of the game. The problem is the game is not as fun as you would hope it would be. Whereas in a better game, this would lead to so much replay value, 100%. But I don't ever really want to play this game again. And that's not to say I hated this game, but I couldn't imagine wanting to go through it again to get a different ending.

No, because the gameplay again, I always hate talking in industry terms, but the gameplay loop, as it's called, is just not satisfying. It's not fine. It's fine, but it's not like you're like it's fun. It almost just feels like you're just doing a thing. It felt challenging. I don't know. It's tough to describe this game.

You could play this game for 90 minutes and you basically got the entire experience out of it, gameplay wise.

It's super simple. Gameplay wise. Yeah, that's exactly it.

It doesn't really, I guess, push you forward to go deeper into it. It's not hard. It's not so easy that you can just cheese everything and then it's just, like, fun to speed run. It's kind of like in a weird middle ground where it's like, I don't really like this.

Yeah, I don't feel like playing.

I'm bored.

Yeah, you're going to do anything.

That's its biggest crime, is that this game is kind of boring. But we're not always right about games, and we're definitely not the authority on games. So let's see what everyone else had to say about Shadow the Hedgehog.

Finally I've got all the chaos. Emeralds.

I made you, and this is how you repay me?

I am Shadow Android, the ultimate battle life form created by Eggman. You may have created me, Doctor, but I will now lead this empire. And Androids will rule. This is who I am.

Shadow the Hedgehog received generally unfavorable reviews from critics on Metacritic. The PS Two version is the worst of the three.

The PS two.

Yeah. At 45 out of 100, GameCube being the best, the highest rated, I feel like there's a GameCube bump. I feel like everything that is multiplatform gets a little bit of a bump on GameCube because people have some weird, like, nostalgia for GameCube because of the handle.

It's the handle.

Yeah, that's true. I could take Shadow the Hedgehog to my friend's house.

Exactly.

Shadow it up.

And there's adorable little discs.

So though it received generally unfavorable reviews, video game juggernaut jettix.

Jettix.

Do you remember Jettix?

Not at all. I don't even know that that's a thing. You might be making that up. I would never know.

They named it the Best Game of 2005. Which fucking and one of our favorite segments coming up. What games did this beat for? Best game of 2005.

Come on.

This beat resident Evil Four.

JetX.

This be God of war.

God of war.

This be Metal Gear Solid Three. Substance, which I guess I could see that, I guess because substance is just like the rerelease.

Yeah. So there's nothing really new there.

This beat shadow of the colossus oh, guys. This beat, guitar Hero. The first Guitar Hero.

The game changing. Paradigm changing. Yeah.

That's what this game be. It was also named best Platformer, which seems fucking wild to me. By Nintendo Power readers proving once more that Nintendo Power only appealed to children.

Absolutely. 100%.

And possibly children with some sort of bubble boy disease could be. That can't go outside.

Traumatic brain injury disease. It's just an injury.

Yeah.

Car accident. Kids. Yeah.

It was a commercial success, though. Sega reported that it sold 1.59 million units from its release from its release to March 2006.

Okay, congrats.

And then from 2006 to 2007, 470,000 more, totaling 2.6 million copies. But some publications were not as kind. Matt.

Helgeson sorry.

Matt, if you're a listener, which I doubt you are from Game Informer said not only is this new adult interpretation of Sonic painfully dumb, it's also ill advised and almost feels like a betrayal to longtime fans. Which, I mean, fuck fair. Very fair.

Yeah.

Eurostaff writer Tom Bramwell felt that the game's other selling point, its darker edge, is not really meant for us.

Yeah.

Which, I mean, makes sense. Yeah.

Kind of agree. I can't fault what he's saying there. Yeah.

But here we go. Xbox magazine reassured readers oh, God, this is fucking aged like milk. Don't worry, shadow the Hedgehog isn't half as urban or quite as gangsta as it first seems.

Holy shit. That is in the hall of fame of, like you know what you're saying there, don't you, man? No, it's not urban, bro. You got to take some classes.

Yeah.

Wow.

Insane. What an insane thing to say about that game.

Think about all the people that looked at that, like editors and stuff, and they're like, yeah, no, we can print we should print this. Yeah.

This is from Xbox magazine, which this year, this same year, San Andreas would get released on the Xbox prior to Shadow.

Yeah. This is saying, don't worry.

Is this a veiled comparison to San Andreas?

This is holy shit. We could do an episode on this.

Yes. I want to find this guy.

I want to get that writer in this fucking zoom call and fucking say, what do you mean by that, bro?

Talk about it. Yeah. Can you elaborate on what you mean by Shadow the Hedgehog isn't half as urban or quite as gangster?

Yeah. What are you saying there, man? What are you saying?

Yeah.

Because he's shooting cops.

Yeah.

Wow, dude. Wow.

In fact, I think that's one of the more fun parts of the game. So ian.

Yes.

What would you rank this game?

All right. Shadow the Hedgehog, for me, is a game. It's a classic case of trying to please two very different groups of gamers and winding up pleasing to me no one. So for that reason, and many others, I'm going to give Shadow the Hedgehog two and one half cop funerals.

I think I largely agree with you.

Yeah.

And I'm going to say I'm going to also give it two and a half. Fuck the polices.

There it is.

Out of five.

Well, that was Shadow the Hedgehog Sega's departure from trying to peel olden children, I guess. I don't know.

Yeah. Shadow.

The hedgehog EDGEHOG. Very good. Very good. Thanks so much for listening.

We appreciate everyone who subscribes. If you'd like to hear more, we release a new episode every PS Tuesday. You can find us on all of our social medias, like Instagram, where you can find us at discreedairpod. Yes, you can find me on Instagram at funeral. Casual games.

I'm at Ian Golding Games.

And you can find us on whatnot? At Funeral Casual, where we sometimes slang some games. Sometimes I bitch about stuff or do tier lists.

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